EA052: Sacred Kink Part 2
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Dan:
This week on Erotic Awakening: Sacred Kink with Lee Harrington, Part 2.[music intro]
Announcer:
Welcome to Erotic Awakening with Dan and dawn, a weekly view of all things erotic. From BDSM to erotic spirituality, from swinging as a lifestyle to simply fun kink, each week we bring you a diverse offering of erotic and alternative lifestyles in its many forms. This podcast includes frank discussions of highly sexual topics. This podcast is intended for consenting adults over the age of 18. If you are offended by this type of content, we recommend you stop listening right now.Dan:
Hi dawn.dawn:
Hi Dan.Dan:
So last week when you went off to your party, if I remember correctly, you put on a blue wristband.dawn:
I did.Dan:
And for those listeners that don't know this, when you go to a play party and you put on a blue wristband, that means that you are willing to bottom for someone.dawn:
Exactly.Dan:
And my understanding is you didn't bottom for anyone.dawn:
No. And you know, the blue wristband actually shows that you're willing to talk to someone about bottoming for them. It doesn't mean that you're like “open game” or anything, but at least it's supposed to start discussions.Dan:
Well, as it happens, the new podcast rule is that if you are a fan of the podcast, and you've listened to the podcast, and dawn's wearing a blue wristband or I'm wearing a red wristband, then the answer is yes, we would like to play. So fanboys get to play.dawn:
Oh, I like that.Dan:
So this week, we're talking with Lee Harrington, part two of our discussion with her. We were talking about sacred kink, and we'll have that interview coming up in the second part of the show.dawn:
Hopefully, I don't come across as such a fangirl this time, because I noticed with the first part of the interview that it really felt like I was a fangirl, just idolizing Lee, which I do.Dan:
Well, it's really funny that you say that though, because a lot of the presenters, and workshop runners, and such that we interact with, we're like, “oh, so-and-so, Joe, the presenter, he's really good, and we enjoy his presentations, but we're pretty good too, and we feel like they're peers.”dawn:
Right.Dan:
But Lee, we'll clearly, we’ll honestly admit, Lee is a pioneer, and very knowledgeable, and there's a reason why Lee is one of the most sought after presenters out there.dawn:
Very dynamic and knows his stuff, and I just...mmm! [laughs]Dan:
So I think maybe sometimes if you're going to be a fanboy, or a fangirl in your case, Lee is a pretty good person to be a fan of. And it's okay to respect and admire someone without it being stalky and scary.dawn:
Very true. So I have no interest in stalking, but we do end up at the same places a lot.Dan:
But we don't have a lot of time for that right now.dawn:
Sorry.Dan:
We got to pack the car. We are leaving tomorrow. We are headed for the nation's capital, Washington, DC.dawn:
That's going to be so much fun.Dan:
Yep. We are going to be checking out, of course, Dark Odyssey Winter Fire. As we said last week, we think there's about 1,000 people going to show up for that one.dawn:
That's the latest email update that I saw was 1,000 people.Dan:
And as we mentioned, we'll do a little bit of live podcast recording, pick some interviews. And this is great for our listeners - if you would like to go to Dark Odyssey Winter Fire, but for whatever reason you can't go, head over to the website, look at the list of presenters, and say, “oh, boy, I sure hope they do an interview with Sarah Sloan”, or ooh, boy, Mollena is going to be there. I've never gotten to see Mollena. I'd love to hear something from her.” And say, “hey, Dan, dawn, why don't you interview that awesome Sarah Sloan, or Mollena, or any of the other great presenters that are going to be there?”dawn:
That'd be awesome to hear who people want to listen to.Dan:
So even though you can't make it to Dark Odyssey, we will go in proxy for you and bring back some of those presentations that you wanted to see.dawn:
Sweet.Dan:
And if you want us to do that, gather presentations for you or to get ahold of us for any other reason, here's how to contact us.dawn:
So by email, it's eroticawakening@bluecatservices.org.Dan:
Or voicemail, 206-309-0054.dawn:
On FetLife, our group is Erotic Awakening.Dan:
And finally, Twitter, Dan and dawn.[music break]
Dan:
So last week, we presented part one of Sacred Kink. And one of our listeners responded by saying that, when they do BDSM scenes, they're very intense, and very dynamic, and very in depth, for her. And she sees them more as work than she does as play. And she went on - and I can relate with this - sometimes the word “play” seems a little bit too…unencompassing of what we're really doing.dawn:
Not really descriptive of what we're really doing.Dan:
And a lot of people do BDSM for fun. And we're not taking anything away from that. We've certainly had our scenes which are clearly for the fun of it. I remember catching a “witch” in Texas.dawn:
[laughs] Yes.Dan:
And we had a very fun scene. I ended up beating her with a shoe, and the audience was around and cheering us on, and she wouldn't confess her sins.dawn:
She was being a little bratty and things like that.Dan:
So nothing wrong with a BDSM scene done for fun. In this particular case, though, when we're thinking sacred kink, or sacred BDSM, BDSM done for a purpose, or a depth, getting a little deeper, coming out of it and being changed, coming out of it and being a little more than you were when you went in.dawn:
Yes. Tapping into something inside, and sometimes you don't even know it's there, but it's time for it to come out and be looked at.Dan:
When the person said that they felt that BDSM for them was more work than it was play, I responded to them by saying, well, maybe there's this middle ground of the two, and I call it dance. Maybe it's a dance.dawn:
I like that.Dan:
It's energetic, it's intense, it's focused. But on the other hand, for myself, most BDSM scenes, very few BDSM scenes, do I want to be work. Now, granted, there are times when I do want to… focus energy, and it does feel more like work, and that's okay to do on appropriate - but most of the time, most of the time, I'm thinking what I want out of my BDSM scene is more of that sense of dance.dawn:
The giving and receiving, that you're not doing all the giving and them doing all the receiving. That's very draining. You know, I like to be able to, I mean, you think of bottoms as just taking. And in reality, I like to give back, even though you can't tell unless you're energetically tapped into it, that I'm also giving back in some manner. Whether it's vulnerability, whether it's just being open to what's going on, whether it's growling back at you, whether it's giving you some noises that you're taking me different places. You know, it is a dance.Dan:
I agree. And I recall Sir Andrew from Canada telling us, he was one of the first people that turned me on to the idea that not only was he journeying, you know, when he bottomed, but when he topped, he was partaking in the journey with his submissive.dawn:
Yes.Dan:
And it was really interesting to hear him say that. And then later on, as we continued to move along, we saw a presentation with Michelle Belanger, who said the same thing. And she does some sado-shamanism, I believe is what she called it, you know, where it is you are not just sending your submissive off on her own little flight into subspace, or whatever space they're going into, but to follow them into space and to develop your own, not so much top space, which is what I see as a just “control” place, but this other form of top space where I, too, am journeying. And we see that in our scenes that are a little more intense and in-depth, you know. Again, referring back to just a couple of weekends ago, when I threw you on the floor, was growling, biting, humping. There was a… And I don't know if this would be being considered being ridden, so much as, perhaps, more of an internal opening up. I really don't know what it was, what kind of journey that was.dawn:
Being ridden, opening up to your primal self. I mean, sometimes you don't need that answer. It just is. It was definitely something.Dan:
Yeah, absolutely. And I'm looking forward to getting to the section of Lee's book about that Ordeal Path and seeing if there's some answers in there for me.dawn:
Oh, I imagine there are.Dan:
Maybe I'll get lucky and part two of the interview will have those answers that I seek.dawn:
Ooh, that would be nice.Dan:
And easy, too, because reading can be hard!dawn:
It can. [giggles][pause]
Lee:
Just like a discussion around all these paths needs to be had. Whether you are somebody who is called towards working with rhythm, fucking in time, pumping through...Yeah, look at that grin, doesn't it? [Lee laughs]dawn:
I just sat right up!Lee:
And there are some of us who have had those profound moments on the dance floor, in the dungeon. I was at a play party once where, instead of pumping Enya through the overhead speakers, this was at… it was at Sacred Sexuality Beltane last year, where for one night, they brought in the drum crew into the dungeon.dawn:
Nice.Lee:
Live drums, pumping, and every single flogger, every single singletail in the room, because of - not just on speakers, but the echo of that drum beat fell in time, until suddenly the moans, and cries, and shrill sighs of relief that were coming out of the bottoms… were in the same tone of music that the lead drummer was literally playing everyone in the room.dawn:
Nice.Lee:
Yeah.dawn:
You can just imagine the vibration and the energy of that.Lee:
Absolutely. Absolutely.Dan:
dawn and I are very fortunate. We've been around for a little while, and some of the stuff that you've touched on, I can say, “oh, I can completely relate with that.” Some of the stuff you've touched on is like, I'm halfway there. I've been ridden, but I don't understand it enough. And some of the stuff is like, what? So some of this stuff, so, is the book appropriate for people that have been around for a long time and are looking to take the next step? Is it something that you would recommend to a newcomer? Are you really looking for, oh, this is really for advanced people that really have their shit together already?Lee:
It's funny. One of my editors for the book was Philip Bernhardt-House III, who people would know from - he's an academic within the pagan community, and has written a lot of stuff on the work of werecreatures in Irish mythology, regular lecturer on the pagan circuit, on a lot of really fascinating academic texts. He's right now editing some stuff on non-Irish [inaudible] workings and all that stuff. Brain the size of a planet, love him dearly. And not really that intense of a sexual - I mean, plays sexually, and does stuff, but this is not his path.I hired two editors, one to check my sacred facts, and one to check my BDSM facts. Just to make sure that I was not bullshitting myself, and making things up by reading them on Wikipedia, or hearing it once, and making sure that I wasn't misquoting Muslim faith tradition workings with slashing open your own chest, like that kind of stuff.
And afterwards, Phillip said to me, “You know what? I had not considered the… I've been doing spiritual exploration for 25 years, 30 years actively, and I've not considered a lot of these things, even though they're so obvious, because you phrased them in a way that made me go, ‘right, I knew that already! Why didn't I put two and two together and make four? I had the two, I had the two, but ah!’”
dawn:
I miss that math a lot.Lee:
Exactly! It happens. And so I would say, for the people who are always spiritual explorers, and they're like, “oh wait, I can add this thing that I already love and make it mine.” I've had people who are advanced BDSM people who are like, “that's why I had my epiphany. Got it.” Right? Or gone “Oh, there's language here now for me to be able to have a conversation with my lovers.” Or for me to be able to negotiate with people and say, “oh, by the way, sometimes I gloss over and the goddess speaks through my mouth when I am femdomme-ing and being a dominatrix. Now, I have a language for that.” So I have an entire glossary at the back of the book, of language to be able to have the conversation with.And I've also had a couple of new people who have read just a couple of essays here and there and gone, “wait, I'm fascinated by erotic objectification.” And there's an essay, I can just flip open the beginning of the book and go, “oh, page 268, objectification for animus. What's that mean?” And it's where I look at the idea that a lot of objectification, sexual objectification, that's out there is from the idea that objects have no value. But what happens if I believe that this bed has a soul? [taps bed] What happens if I believe that this microphone has a spirit? [taps microphone] What happens if I say to this book, “thank you for teaching me something?” And if I choose to step away from a culture that says, oh, well, my car's not working, I'll throw it away, there is no “away.” And what if I bring that into my erotic relationships and my erotic connections?
dawn:
Right.Lee:
And so there's some people that I've had who have just picked up the book and gone, “I'm only going to read three or four essays, but it's three or four essays that call to me.” And then I decided - and then I also have some stuff for academics - but I also decided to, because I'm a perv, and I find that our community of perverts, note the word perversion, to take something that is meant to do one thing and to do something else with it, right? There is power in that concept.But I found that some people learn better through porn. [dawn giggles] So I decided for every single path, there's a porn story. So the Path of Rhythm, I talk about this idea of a Daddy and boy, gay Leather couple who are at a dance club night, and the Daddy starts using his boy as a drum on the dance floor.
dawn:
Oh, we've done that before!Lee:
Yeah! Until actually, the top is the one who ends up going on the trance. And the top is the one who ends up going on this journey. Because there's this misnomer that, “oh, the top is the guide, and the bottom will go on a journey into the…” It doesn't have to be. So I talk about the other direction.As compared to Path of the Flesh, where I start out with a couple, a heterosexual couple with a submissive woman, who isn't that submissive, but she's a sensualist and a hedonist, who gets picked up by her partner and blindfolded, taken home, and he ties her down and feeds her a bite at a time of different foods, until she's confused on which sense is coming next.
In the Path of the Horse, I talk about a dominatrix, and it's inspired by somebody that I know in the Seattle area. And all these are inspired by people that I've met, or things that I've had myself. They're all inspired by stories that I've seen or been part of.
And - she, it's basically this idea of, she's a - I don't list the name, but the real worker is, the real person I know is a devotee of Ereshkigal in the Inanna-Ereshkigal cycle. The goddess of the underworld, she who tells you dark truths to be able to open up your eyes. And that is who she does her devotion of pro-dommeing and domination for.
And so in the story, I talk about this idea that in this pro-domme's day, most of the time it's just normal clients, normal clients, but occasionally she gets this voice at the back of her head. “This one is special.” And she dresses in her sacred garb, an this case, her sacred garb is long black velvets, and sheer black laces, and tight corsets, and high heels. And when she puts on her Lady's mask, and it comes out over her face, she slips into the back seat of her own mind. And what she is “supposed” to do comes out, not what her ego wants to do, but what she needs to do, comes out. And it's the story of a devotee of this goddess being able to come to a dominatrix for an opportunity to worship divinity.
And so I have all these different stories to help people who might be looking through a book and going, “you want me to sit there while tied up… and think about my navel? What?” [all laugh] To go, “oh!” And to get inside the head of the people who are going there, because for some folks, the academic stuff isn't going to sink in, but having examples of erotic things that they can buy into emotionally.
dawn:
It creates a picture with that story.Lee:
Exactly.dawn:
Some of us are very visual.Lee:
Absolutely.dawn:
You give us the facts and it's like, “oh, okay, but give us the story.” Yeah, that's what sticks.Dan:
And that's fantastic because I may not be able to relate to the idea of a bunch of people around the fire, getting down and dancing, and drumming, and that kind of stuff. And that might be foreign and weird to me. But I've absolutely been to an event and I'll be listening to the music in the background, and the thumping of a butt boy, or whatever. I find myself flogging to the beat, and finding myself slipping into what we're calling here as a trance state. To me, it's just like, “oh, I'm just getting all energized. “I'm getting all focused and I'm just, hey, that's like I'm not even in charge anymore.Lee:
Right.Dan:
So it's great that you're approaching it from two different directions like that.Lee:
Absolutely. Because my big thought is that this is not - I originally was thinking about writing an academic text. That had been my original intention when I started writing. And the more I wrote, the more I realized that if I wrote to the university circuit, which - I teach in the university circuit, as well as within the communities of sexuality and spirituality - I realized that if I spoke to them before speaking to our own community, I wasn't going to raise the excellence within our communities. Right? And I needed to do the grassroots work first, before I could do the high-falutin’ stuff.And so my hope, just to plant the seed for people ahead of time, if people want to look at my website, which is passionandsoul.com, in the next month or so, I've decided that I'm actually going to do an anthology series based off my work here in Sacred Kink, because Sacred Kink is my viewpoint. And it's a 400-plus page giant friggin’ thing that gives people a starting place, mind you, in big fonts, so that people can read it. And it's all like, no essays more than eight pages long, so that you don't, nobody gets, like, their brain numbed. But, so that this is my voice, though, and it's my perspective having talked to the people that I've met. So it has collections, it probably has 100 different people's stories, if not 200 people's stories in it, but that's only a start.
So I’ve decided I wanted to do an anthology series, and I'm going to start with one, see how it goes, with me as the editor, where I'm going to be doing a call out in the next month or so for a book called The Power of Passion. And it's going to be an anthology of people's personal stories of experiencing sacred kink in some way. Whether it's altered states of consciousness, whether it's having had a profound moment, whether it's being in the middle of a scene and going, “Oh my God, I need to not be here” because your inner wisdom finally spoke up, because your monkey mind was able to be silenced. And that moment of like, “I have to be tough. I have to be tough.” No, really? I need to stop this right now.
Any of these things, moments where maybe somebody was having an ecstatic dance moment, and they found themselves making out with a total stranger, but it was as it was meant to be. All of these things are explorations in sacred kink. And so I want to open it up and get people's perspectives.
And my hope is the first anthology, if it does well and people are interested in it, be able to do an anthology a year, or every two years of a different topic, maybe choose a different path each time, and have stories and collections to get these tales because - these things are happening in the bedroom, dancing under an open sky, in your tantric practices, finding these moments of going, “wait, how - I squeezed my own thighs to focus into my breath and breathing better. Does that make me a masochist?” No, it means you used your body! Wow. Right?
Or these moments of hearing the stories where people have used Mastery or slavery or a path of training, or path of being called to be a whip master, as a calling, in the classical sense of a calling of a spiritual path. I want these stories out there because they are all out there and we've all had them. We've all had something happen. Even if it was the moment to stand up and say, no, really, I don't care what you're saying. I'm choosing to hold on to my virginity, and I'm choosing to be monogamous, because that is what is calling me until I am ready. That too is a form, in my opinion, of sacred kink because it is perverting what is being a social norm. The social norm right now is to say, “knickers to the wind, I'm going to go wherever I want to go.” Look at the new version of 90210 on television, you know what I mean? And OC and all these stuff.
To me, when I see people who are choosing a path of being the vestal virgins of our generation, I tip my hat to them. And on the flip side, when I see people who are reclaiming the word slut, I tip my hat to them. [dawn giggles] And when I see people who, for whatever path they choose, are going there fully, with investment, with intention, with attention to detail, I am blown away. And I consider all of these things workings in sacred kink. So that's my hope with the book. And that's my hope with some of these ideas, is to open it up to a conversation. I do not have all of the answers, but my hope is that I can plant some seeds, and that every single person will grow their own garden, of where they need to be and what they need to do.
Dan:
Well, you may not have all the answers, but I'm holding 400 pages.dawn:
That’s what I was just thinking.Dan:
Pretty darn close getting there.dawn:
I'm pictures, so I don't, like I said, I don't have the words. So maybe this will help me have some of the words to explain my spiritual path in slavery.Lee:
Absolutely. And at the back of the book - exactly - at the back of the book, not just on the back cover, but in the back section, I have a series of appendices, some essays that didn't make it in the book. But I also have a resource section in there. If you go, you know what? This is totally - this voice doesn't work for me. You might go, “oh, I need to go read Sensuous Sadie's collection of interviews that she did.” Or, “oh, I need to go read Raven Kaldera's work on Ordeal Path, because that's what calls to me.” Or, “oh, wait, what sounds more intriguing to me is to go and to do an intensive experience in sacred kink workings, and I'm going to go do work with the two of you, in doing stuff with the Scarlet Temple and all that kind of stuff.” And that's, “oh, that thing of Khandeshi, that's what calls to me.” Right? Or, “oh, erotomancy? Tell me about that.”dawn:
Oh, I love that word.Lee:
Right? Tell me about Deborah Addington’s work.dawn:
Addington, yes.Lee:
Or, “oh, shamata dom, I can resonate with that.” Like yeah, as a dominant, I am a shaman. I want to go study with and work with the folks at Sacred Mark Sanctuary. Or, “oh, no, what really calls to me is the calling of the priest in black leather, of Christian service in D/s, Dominant/submissive mastery. Wow, I need to go and study at the feet of Master Skip Chasey for a period of time,” who's a theologian with the Metropolitan Community Church, who is also a devout Leatherman who believes that Leather is his calling towards divinity.Dan:
A lot of paths.Lee:
There's a lot of paths out there, and my hope is, is that this will help people, at least give them a flashlight, give a machete, clear the way a little bit, find their own way through the jungle, find their own path, figure out what is right for them, with these eight paths being a starting place. Some options to consider, and go, “oh, that's what I need to do today,” or “oh, that's what I need to do this year,” or “oh, that's what I need to do this lifetime. That's what I've been doing for this lifetime, and I didn't have any words for it yet.”Dan:
The book is Sacred Kink: The Eightfold Path of BDSM and Beyond. Lee, how can I find out more? Where can I get the book? Where can I find out more about you?Lee:
My website is passionandsoul.com. On my website, I have lists of all of my books. Sacred Kink is my newest one, but I've got other stuff out there as well, on hands-on erotic skills, and lots of other stuff. You can download podcasts that I've been on. You can go to different online classes that I've had.And also for people who are interested, I've started a series of intensive weekends. I have two different intensive weekends. One is called Delving Into Power, which is a three-day intensive exploring dominance and submission as a personal path towards exploration, and finding out if dominance and submission is right for you. And then I have another one that is specifically on the sacred kink working, that is called Kink Odyssey. It's a two-day experience of dabbling in what is kink, what is sacred kink, and figuring out what people want to do with their path of that stuff. And they can find all that information on my website.
And if people are interested, I also teach all over the United States and actually all over the world. I'm teaching in Canada next weekend. I just, in November, did a month of stuff down in Melbourne and Sydney, Australia. So I'm traveling on a regular basis, and they can find my classes, my travel schedule, including my private one-on-one mentoring and coaching and kaseeka working that I do for people who might be wanting to do this stuff, but need a mentor, a guide, and some different things like that. So again, passionandsoul.com.
Dan:
Very cool.dawn:
Fabulous.Lee:
Thank you for having me back. It has been fantastic.[music outro]
Announcer:
Coming up next week, “sex is fun.”Dan:
Bye dawn.dawn:
Bye Dan. Bye Jan!Dan:
How’d she sneak in?!Announcer:
Music Heard on Erotic Awakening, “Free” by White Night, “Strawberry Jam” by Jerry Bradley, and “Wunda” by 31D1, is provided from the Podshow Podsafe Network. More information can be found at music.podshow.com
